GNU Astronomy Utilities

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2.3 Detecting large extended targets

The outer wings of large and extended objects can sink into the noise very gradually and can have a large variety of shapes (for example due to tidal interactions). Therefore separating the outer boundaries of the galaxies from the noise can be particularly tricky. Besides causing an under-estimation in the total estimated brightness of the target, failure to detect such faint wings will also cause a bias in the noise measurements, thereby hampering the accuracy of any measurement on the dataset. Therefore even if they don’t constitute a significant fraction of the target’s light, or aren’t your primary target, these regions must not be ignored. In this tutorial, we’ll walk you through the strategy of detecting such targets using NoiseChisel.

Don’t start with this tutorial: If you haven’t already completed General program usage tutorial, we strongly recommend going through that tutorial before starting this one. Basic features like access to this book on the command-line, the configuration files of Gnuastro’s programs, benefiting from the modular nature of the programs, viewing multi-extension FITS files, or using NoiseChisel’s outputs are discussed in more detail there.

We’ll try to detect the faint tidal wings of the beautiful M51 group41 in this tutorial. We’ll use a dataset/image from the public Sloan Digital Sky Survey, or SDSS. Due to its more peculiar low surface brightness structure/features, we’ll focus on the dwarf companion galaxy of the group (or NGC 5195). To get the image, you can use SDSS’s Simple field search tool. As long as it is covered by the SDSS, you can find an image containing your desired target either by providing a standard name (if it has one), or its coordinates. To access the dataset we will use here, write NGC5195 in the “Object Name” field and press “Submit” button.

Type the example commands: Try to type the example commands on your terminal and use the history feature of your command-line (by pressing the “up” button to retrieve previous commands). Don’t simply copy and paste the commands shown here. This will help simulate future situations when you are processing your own datasets.

You can see the list of available filters under the color image. For this demonstration, we’ll use the r-band filter image. By clicking on the “r-band FITS” link, you can download the image. Alternatively, you can just run the following command to download it with GNU Wget42. To keep things clean, let’s also put it in a directory called ngc5195. With the -O option, we are asking Wget to save the downloaded file with a more manageable name: r.fits.bz2 (this is an r-band image of NGC 5195, which was the directory name).

$ mkdir ngc5195
$ cd ngc5195
$ topurl=
$ wget $topurl/301/3716/6/frame-r-003716-6-0117.fits.bz2 -Or.fits.bz2

This server keeps the files in a Bzip2 compressed file format. So we’ll first decompress it with the following command. By convention, compression programs delete the original file (compressed when uncompressing, or uncompressed when compressing). To keep the original file, you can use the --keep or -k option which is available in most compression programs for this job. Here, we don’t need the compressed file any more, so we’ll just let bunzip delete it for us and keep the directory clean.

$ bunzip2 r.fits.bz2

Let’s see how NoiseChisel operates on it with its default parameters:

$ astnoisechisel r.fits -h0

As described in NoiseChisel output, NoiseChisel’s default output is a multi-extension FITS file. A method to view them effectively and easily is discussed in Viewing multiextension FITS images. For more on tweaking NoiseChisel and optimizing its output for archiving or sending to colleagues, see the NoiseChisel part of the previous tutorial in General program usage tutorial.

Open the output r_detected.fits file and have a look at the extensions, the first extension is only meta-data and contains NoiseChisel’s configuration parameters. The rest are the Sky-subtracted input, the detection map, Sky values and Sky standard deviation.

Flipping through the extensions in a FITS viewer (for example SAO DS9), you will see that the Sky-subtracted image looks reasonable (there are no major artifacts due to bad Sky subtraction compared to the input). The second extension also seems reasonable with a large detection map that covers the whole of NGC5195, but also extends beyond towards the bottom of the image. Try going back and forth between the DETECTIONS and SKY extensions, you will notice that there is still significant signal beyond the detected pixels. You can tell that this signal belongs to the galaxy because the far-right side of the image is dark and the brighter tiles (that weren’t interpolated) are surrounding the detected pixels.

The fact that signal from the galaxy remains in the Sky dataset shows that you haven’t done a good detection. Generally, any time your target is much larger than the tile size and the signal is almost flat (like this case), this will happen. Therefore, when there are large objects in the dataset, the best place to check the accuracy of your detection is the estimated Sky image.

When dominated by the background, noise has a symmetric distribution. However, signal is not symmetric (we don’t have negative signal). Therefore when non-constant signal is present in a noisy dataset, the distribution will be positively skewed. This skewness is a good measure of how much signal we have in the distribution. The skewness can be accurately measured by the difference in the mean and median: assuming no strong outliers, the more distant they are, the more skewed the dataset is. For more see Quantifying signal in a tile.

However, skewness is only a proxy for signal when the signal has structure (varies per pixel). Therefore, when it is approximately constant over a whole tile, or sub-set of the image, the signal’s effect is just to shift the symmetric center of the noise distribution to the positive and there won’t be any skewness (major difference between the mean and median): this positive43 shift that preserves the symmetric distribution is the Sky value. When there is a gradient over the dataset, different tiles will have different constant shifts/Sky-values, for example see Figure 11 of Akhlaghi and Ichikawa [2015].

To get less scatter in measuring the mean and median (and thus better estimate the skewness), you will need a larger tile. So let’s play with the tessellation a little to see how it affects the result. In Gnuastro, you can see the option values (--tilesize in this case) by adding the -P option to your last command. Try running NoiseChisel with -P to see its default tile size.

You can clearly see that the default tile size is indeed much smaller than this (huge) galaxy and its tidal features. As a result, NoiseChisel was unable to identify the skewness within the tiles under the outer parts of M51 and NGC 5159 and the threshold has been over-estimated on those tiles. To see which tiles were used for estimating the quantile threshold (no skewness was measured), you can use NoiseChisel’s --checkqthresh option:

$ astnoisechisel r.fits -h0 --checkqthresh

Notice how this option doesn’t allow NoiseChisel to finish. NoiseChisel aborted after finding the quantile thresholds. When you call any of NoiseChisel’s --check* options, by default, it will abort as soon as all the check steps have been written in the check file (a multi-extension FITS file). This allows you to focus on the problem you wanted to check as soon as possible (you can disable this feature with the --continueaftercheck option).

To optimize the threshold-related settings for this image, let’s playing with this quantile threshold check image a little. Don’t forget that “Good statistical analysis is not a purely routine matter, and generally calls for more than one pass through the computer” (Anscombe 1973, see Science and its tools). A good scientist must have a good understanding of her tools to make a meaningful analysis. So don’t hesitate in playing with the default configuration and reviewing the manual when you have a new dataset in front of you. Robust data analysis is an art, therefore a good scientist must first be a good artist.

The first extension of r_qthresh.fits (CONVOLVED) is the convolved input image where the threshold(s) is defined and applied. For more on the effect of convolution and thresholding, see Sections 3.1.1 and 3.1.2 of Akhlaghi and Ichikawa [2015]. The second extension (QTHRESH_ERODE) has a blank value for all the pixels of any tile that was identified as having significant signal. The next two extensions (QTHRESH_NOERODE and QTHRESH_EXPAND) are the other two quantile thresholds that are necessary in NoiseChisel’s later steps. Every step in this file is repeated on the three thresholds.

Play a little with the color bar of the QTHRESH_ERODE extension, you clearly see how the non-blank tiles around NGC 5195 have a gradient. As one line of attack against discarding too much signal below the threshold, NoiseChisel rejects outlier tiles. Go forward by three extensions to VALUE1_NO_OUTLIER and you will see that many of the tiles over the galaxy have been removed in this step. For more on the outlier rejection algorithm, see the latter half of Quantifying signal in a tile.

However, the default outlier rejection parameters weren’t enough, and when you play with the color-bar, you see that the faintest parts of the galaxy outskirts still remain. Therefore have two strategies for approaching this problem: 1) Increase the tile size to get more accurate measurements of skewness. 2) Strengthen the outlier rejection parameters to discard more of the tiles with signal. Fortunately in this image we have a sufficiently large region on the right of the image that the galaxy doesn’t extend to. So we can use the more robust first solution. In situations where this doesn’t happen (for example if the field of view in this image was shifted to have more of M51 and less sky) you are limited to a combination of the two solutions or just to the second solution.

Skipping convolution for faster tests: The slowest step of NoiseChisel is the convolution of the input dataset. Therefore when your dataset is large (unlike the one in this test), and you are not changing the input dataset or kernel in multiple runs (as in the tests of this tutorial), it is faster to do the convolution separately once (using Convolve) and use NoiseChisel’s --convolved option to directly feed the convolved image and avoid convolution. For more on --convolved, see NoiseChisel input.

To identify the skewness caused by the flat NGC 5195 and M51 tidal features on the tiles under it, we thus have to choose a tile size that is larger than the gradient of the signal. Let’s try a 100 by 100 tile size:

$ astnoisechisel r.fits -h0 --tilesize=100,100 --checkqthresh

You can clearly see the effect of this increased tile size: the tiles are much larger (\(\times4\) in area) and when you look into VALUE1_NO_OUTLIER, you see that almost all the tiles under the galaxy have been discarded and we are only left with tiles in the right-most part of the image. The next group of extensions (those ending with _INTERP), give a value to all blank tiles based on the nearest tiles with a measurement. The following group of extensions (ending with _SMOOTH) have smoothed the interpolated image to avoid sharp cuts on tile edges.

Inspecting THRESH1_SMOOTH, you can see that there is no longer any significant gradient and no major signature of NGC 5195 exists. But before finishing the quantile threshold, let’s have a closer look at the final extension (QTHRESH-APPLIED) which is thresholded image. Slide the dynamic range in your FITS viewer so 0 valued pixels are black and all non-zero pixels are white. You will see that the black holes are not evenly distributed. Those that follow the tail of NGC 5195 are systematically smaller than those in the far-right of the image. This suggests that we can decrease the quantile threshold (--qthresh) even further: there is still signal down there!

$ rm r_qthresh.fits
$ astnoisechisel r.fits -h0 --tilesize=100,100 --qthresh=0.2

Since the quantile threshold of the previous command was satisfactory, we finally removed --checkqthresh to let NoiseChisel proceed until completion. Looking at the DETECTIONS extension of NoiseChisel’s output, we see the right-ward edges in particular have many holes that are fully surrounded by signal and the signal stretches out in the noise very thinly. This suggests that there is still signal that can be detected. You can confirm this guess by looking at the SKY extension to see that indeed, we still have traces of the galaxy outskirts there. Therefore, we should dig deeper into the noise.

Let’s decrease the growth quantile (for larger/deeper growth into the noise, with --detgrowquant) and increase the size of holes that can be filled (if they are fully surrounded by signal, with --detgrowmaxholesize).

$ astnoisechisel r.fits -h0 --tilesize=100,100 --qthresh=0.2          \
                 --detgrowquant=0.65 --detgrowmaxholesize=10000

Looking into the output, we now clearly see that the tidal features of M51 and NGC 5195 are detected nicely in the same direction as expected (towards the bottom right side of the image). However, as discussed above, the best measure of good detection is the noise, not the detections themselves. So let’s look at the Sky and its Standard deviation. The Sky still has a very faint shadow of the galaxy outskirts (the values on the left are very slightly larger than those on the right).

Let’s calculate this gradient as a function of noise. First we’ll collapse the image along the second (vertical) FITS dimension to have a 1D array. Then we’ll calculate the top and bottom values of this array and define that as the gradient. Then we’ll estimate the mean standard deviation over the image and divide it by the first value. The first two commands are just for demonstration of the collapsed dataset:

$ astarithmetic r_detected.fits 2 collapse-mean -hSKY -ocollapsed.fits
$ asttable collapsed.fits
$ skydiff=$(astarithmetic r_detected.fits 2 collapse-mean set-i   \
                          i maxvalue i minvalue - -hSKY -q)
$ echo $skydiff
$ std=$(aststatistics r_detected.fits -hSKY_STD --mean)
$ echo $std
$ echo "$std $skydiff" | awk '{print $1/$2}'

This gradient in the Sky (output of first command below) is much less (by more than 20 times) than the standard deviation (final extension). So we can stop configuring NoiseChisel at this point in the tutorial. We leave further configuration for a more accurate detection to you as an exercise.

In this shallow image, this extent may seem too far deep into the noise for visual confirmation. Therefore, if the statistical argument above, to justify the reality of this extended structure, hasn’t convinced you, see the deep images of this system in Watkins et al. [2015], or a 12 hour deep image of this system (with a 12-inch telescope):

Now that we know this detection is real, let’s measure how deep we carved the signal out of noise. For this measurement, we’ll need to estimate the average flux on the outer edges of the detection. Fortunately all this can be done with a few simple commands (and no higher-level language mini-environments) using Arithmetic and MakeCatalog. First, let’s give a separate label to all the connected pixels of NoiseChisel’s detection map:

$ astarithmetic r_detected.fits 2 connected-components -hDETECTIONS \

Of course, you can find the the label of the main galaxy visually, but to have a little more fun, lets do this automatically. The M51 group detection is by far the largest detection in this image. We can thus easily find the ID/label that corresponds to it. We’ll first run MakeCatalog to find the area of all the detections, then we’ll use AWK to find the ID of the largest object and keep it as a shell variable (id):

$ astmkcatalog labeled.fits --ids --geoarea -h1 -ocat.txt
$ id=$(awk '!/^#/{if($2>max) {id=$1; max=$2}} END{print id}' cat.txt)
$ echo $id

To separate the outer edges of the detections, we’ll need to “erode” the detections. We’ll erode two times (one time would be too thin for such a huge object), using a maximum connectivity of 2 (8-connected neighbors). We’ll then save the output in eroded.fits.

$ astarithmetic r_detected.fits 0 gt 2 erode -hDETECTIONS -oeroded.fits

We should now just keep the pixels that have the ID of the M51 group, but a value of 0 in erode.fits. We’ll keep the output in boundary.fits.

$ astarithmetic labeled.fits $id eq eroded.fits 0 eq and          \
                -g1 -oboundary.fits

Open the image and have a look. You’ll see that the detected edge of the M51 group is now clearly visible. You can use boundary.fits to mark (set to blank) this boundary on the input image and get a visual feeling of how far it extends:

$ astarithmetic r.fits boundary.fits nan where -ob-masked.fits -h0

To quantify how deep we have detected the low-surface brightness regions, we’ll use the command below. In short it just divides all the non-zero pixels of boundary.fits in the Sky subtracted input (first extension of NoiseChisel’s output) by the pixel standard deviation of the same pixel. This will give us a signal-to-noise ratio image. The mean value of this image shows the level of surface brightness that we have achieved.

You can also break the command below into multiple calls to Arithmetic and create temporary files to understand it better. However, if you have a look at Reverse polish notation and Arithmetic operators, you should be able to easily understand what your computer does when you run this command45.

$ astarithmetic r_detected.fits boundary.fits not nan where \
                r_detected.fits /                           \
                meanvalue                                   \
                -hINPUT-NO-SKY -h1 -hSKY_STD --quiet

The outer wings where therefore non-parametrically detected until \(\rm{S/N}\approx0.05\)!

This is very good! But the signal-to-noise ratio is a relative measurement. Let’s also measure the depth of our detection in absolute surface brightness units; or magnitudes per square arcseconds. To find out, we’ll first need to calculate how many pixels of this image are in one arcsecond-squared. Fortunately the world coordinate system (or WCS) meta data of Gnuastro’s output FITS files (in particular the CDELT keywords) give us this information.

$ n=$(astfits r_detected.fits -h1                                     \
              | awk '/CDELT1/ {p=1/($3*3600); print p*p}')
$ echo $n

Now, let’s calculate the average sky-subtracted flux in the border region per pixel.

$ f=$(astarithmetic r_detected.fits boundary.fits not nan where set-i \
                    i sumvalue i numvalue / -q -hINPUT-NO-SKY)
$ echo $f

We can just multiply the two to get the average flux on this border in one arcsecond squared. We also have the r-band SDSS zeropoint magnitude46 to be 24.80. Therefore we can get the surface brightness of the outer edge (in magnitudes per arcsecond squared) using the following command. Just note that log in AWK is in base-2 (not 10), and that AWK doesn’t have a log10 operator. So we’ll do an extra division by log(10) to correct for this.

$ z=24.80
$ echo "$n $f $z" | awk '{print -2.5*log($1*$2)/log(10)+$3}'
--> 30.0646

This shows that on a single-exposure SDSS image, we have reached a surface brightness limit of roughly 30 magnitudes per arcseconds squared!

In interpreting this value, you should just have in mind that NoiseChisel works based on the contiguity of signal in the pixels. Therefore the larger the object, the deeper NoiseChisel can carve it out of the noise. In other words, this reported depth, is only for this particular object and dataset, processed with this particular NoiseChisel configuration: if the M51 group in this image was larger/smaller than this, or if the image was larger/smaller, or if we had used a different configuration, we would go deeper/shallower.

The NoiseChisel configuration found here is NOT GENERIC for any large object: As you saw above, the reason we chose this particular configuration for NoiseChisel to detect the wings of the M51 group was strongly influenced by this particular object in this particular image. When low surface brightness signal takes over such a large fraction of your dataset (and you want to accurately detect/account for it), to make sure that it is successfully detected, you will need some manual checking, intervention, or customization. In other words, to make sure that your noise measurements are least affected by the signal47.

To avoid typing all these options every time you run NoiseChisel on this image, you can use Gnuastro’s configuration files, see Configuration files. For an applied example of setting/using them, see General program usage tutorial.

To continue your analysis of such datasets with extended emission, you can use Segment to identify all the “clumps” over the diffuse regions: background galaxies and foreground stars.

$ astsegment r_detected.fits

Open the output r_detected_segmented.fits as a multi-extension data cube like before and flip through the first and second extensions to see the detected clumps (all pixels with a value larger than 1). To optimize the parameters and make sure you have detected what you wanted, its highly recommended to visually inspect the detected clumps on the input image.

For visual inspection, you can make a simple shell script like below. It will first call MakeCatalog to estimate the positions of the clumps, then make an SAO ds9 region file and open ds9 with the image and region file. Recall that in a shell script, the numeric variables (like $1, $2, and $3 in the example below) represent the arguments given to the script. But when used in the AWK arguments, they refer to column numbers.

To create the shell script, using your favorite text editor, put the contents below into a file called Recall that everything after a # is just comments to help you understand the command (so read them!). Also note that if you are copying from the PDF version of this book, fix the single quotes in the AWK command.

#! /bin/bash
set -e	   # Stop execution when there is an error.
set -u	   # Stop execution when a variable is not initialized.

# Run MakeCatalog to write the coordinates into a FITS table.
# Default output is `$1_cat.fits'.
astmkcatalog $1.fits --clumpscat --ids --ra --dec

# Use Gnuastro's Table program to read the RA and Dec columns of the
# clumps catalog (in the `CLUMPS' extension). Then pipe the columns
# to AWK for saving as a DS9 region file.
asttable $1"_cat.fits" -hCLUMPS -cRA,DEC                               \
         | awk 'BEGIN { print "# Region file format: DS9 version 4.1"; \
                        print "global color=green width=1";            \
                        print "fk5" }                                  \
                { printf "circle(%s,%s,1\")\n", $1, $2 }' > $1.reg

# Show the image (with the requested color scale) and the region file.
ds9 -geometry 1800x3000 -mecube $1.fits -zoom to fit                   \
    -scale limits $2 $3 -regions load all $1.reg

# Clean up (delete intermediate files).
rm $1"_cat.fits" $1.reg

Finally, you just have to activate the script’s executable flag with the command below. This will enable you to directly/easily call the script as a command.

$ chmod +x

This script doesn’t expect the .fits suffix of the input’s filename as the first argument. Because the script produces intermediate files (a catalog and DS9 region file, which are later deleted). However, we don’t want multiple instances of the script (on different files in the same directory) to collide (read/write to the same intermediate files). Therefore, we have used suffixes added to the input’s name to identify the intermediate files. Note how all the $1 instances in the commands (not within the AWK command48) are followed by a suffix. If you want to keep the intermediate files, put a # at the start of the last line.

The few, but high-valued, bright pixels in the central parts of the galaxies can hinder easy visual inspection of the fainter parts of the image. With the second and third arguments to this script, you can set the numerical values of the color map (first is minimum/black, second is maximum/white). You can call this script with any49 output of Segment (when --rawoutput is not used) with a command like this:

$ ./ r_detected_segmented -0.1 2

Go ahead and run this command. You will see the intermediate processing being done and finally it opens SAO DS9 for you with the regions superimposed on all the extensions of Segment’s output. The script will only finish (and give you control of the command-line) when you close DS9. If you need your access to the command-line before closing DS9, add a & after the end of the command above.

While DS9 is open, slide the dynamic range (values for black and white, or minimum/maximum values in different color schemes) and zoom into various regions of the M51 group to see if you are satisfied with the detected clumps. Don’t forget that through the “Cube” window that is opened along with DS9, you can flip through the extensions and see the actual clumps also. The questions you should be asking your self are these: 1) Which real clumps (as you visually feel) have been missed? In other words, is the completeness good? 2) Are there any clumps which you feel are false? In other words, is the purity good?

Note that completeness and purity are not independent of each other, they are anti-correlated: the higher your purity, the lower your completeness and vice-versa. You can see this by playing with the purity level using the --snquant option. Run Segment as shown above again with -P and see its default value. Then increase/decrease it for higher/lower purity and check the result as before. You will see that if you want the best purity, you have to sacrifice completeness and vice versa.

One interesting region to inspect in this image is the many bright peaks around the central parts of M51. Zoom into that region and inspect how many of them have actually been detected as true clumps. Do you have a good balance between completeness and purity? Also look out far into the wings of the group and inspect the completeness and purity there.

An easier way to inspect completeness (and only completeness) is to mask all the pixels detected as clumps and visually inspecting the rest of the pixels. You can do this using Arithmetic in a command like below. For easy reading of the command, we’ll define the shell variable i for the image name and save the output in masked.fits.

$ i=r_detected_segmented.fits
$ astarithmetic $i $i 0 gt nan where -hINPUT -hCLUMPS -omasked.fits

Inspecting masked.fits, you can see some very diffuse peaks that have been missed, especially as you go farther away from the group center and into the diffuse wings. This is due to the fact that with this configuration, we have focused more on the sharper clumps. To put the focus more on diffuse clumps, you can use a wider convolution kernel. Using a larger kernel can also help in detecting the existing clumps to fainter levels (thus better separating them from the surrounding diffuse signal).

You can make any kernel easily using the --kernel option in MakeProfiles. But note that a larger kernel is also going to wash-out many of the sharp/small clumps close to the center of M51 and also some smaller peaks on the wings. Please continue playing with Segment’s configuration to obtain a more complete result (while keeping reasonable purity). We’ll finish the discussion on finding true clumps at this point.

The properties of the background objects can then easily be measured using MakeCatalog. To measure the properties of the background objects (detected as clumps over the diffuse region), you shouldn’t mask the diffuse region. When measuring clump properties with MakeCatalog, the ambient flux (from the diffuse region) is calculated and subtracted. If the diffuse region is masked, its effect on the clump brightness cannot be calculated and subtracted.

To keep this tutorial short, we’ll stop here. See General program usage tutorial and Segment for more on using Segment, producing catalogs with MakeCatalog and using those catalogs.

Finally, if this book or any of the programs in Gnuastro have been useful for your research, please cite the respective papers and share your thoughts and suggestions with us (it can be very encouraging). All Gnuastro programs have a --cite option to help you cite the authors’ work more easily. Just note that it may be necessary to cite additional papers for different programs, so please use --cite with any program that has been useful in your work.

$ astmkcatalog --cite
$ astnoisechisel --cite




To make the command easier to view on screen or in a page, we have defined the top URL of the image as the topurl shell variable. You can just replace the value of this variable with $topurl in the wget command.


In processed images, where the Sky value can be over-estimated, this constant shift can be negative.


The image is taken from this Reddit discussion:


boundary.fits (extension 1) is a binary (0 or 1 valued) image. Applying the not operator on it, just flips all its pixels. Through the where operator, we are setting all the newly 1-valued pixels in r_detected.fits (extension INPUT-NO-SKY) to NaN/blank. In the second line, we are dividing all the non-blank values by r_detected.fits (extension SKY_STD). This gives the signal-to-noise ratio for each of the pixels on the boundary. Finally, with the meanvalue operator, we are taking the mean value of all the non-blank pixels and reporting that as a single number.




In the future, we may add capabilities to optionally automate some of the choices made here, please join us in doing this if you are interested. However, given the many problems in existing “smart” solutions, such automatic changing of the configuration may cause more problems than they solve. So even when they are implemented, we would strongly recommend manual checks and intervention for a robust analysis.


In AWK, $1 refers to the first column, while in the shell script, it refers to the first argument.


Some modifications are necessary based on the input dataset: depending on the dynamic range, you have to adjust the second and third arguments. But more importantly, depending on the dataset’s world coordinate system, you have to change the region width, in the AWK command. Otherwise the circle regions can be too small/large.

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